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Post by Oka Ace on Oct 9, 2009 14:04:48 GMT -5
Is because of that stupid Biker testing his gun on him. That was a foreshadowing for what was to happen.
Because if you take a look at Nishis face. When that biker shot him in the face he was shocked. It made him take some damage on his suit that he didn't have to take. Thats why he retaliated and was pissed. The first Tanaka Alien wouldn't have even touched or been much of a Challenge for him if Nishi hadn't gone in with that handicap.
In theory it was actually that Biker that killed Nishi. And it was all his fault.
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Post by Renan on Oct 9, 2009 14:25:10 GMT -5
Or you know, he got cocky and died. But your theory makes sense.
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Post by Жenophilius on Oct 9, 2009 16:09:48 GMT -5
Hmm, but I'm confused here.
When they're done with the mission, and they return to the room, they're basically healed of all damage right?
Wouldn't it work both ways? Leaving/Going the/to room?
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Post by Oka Ace on Oct 9, 2009 16:34:27 GMT -5
Well i know when they're hurt IRL and are transported to the room they're healed and when coming back from a mission they are for sure.
But being healed after being transported from real life, and before a mission? I'm not sure. Nothing goes against my theory though. To help support it I just think when they come back from thier lives thats when the suits activate and moniter suit damage and power, till the missions done.
Could be wrong ofcourse.
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Post by DawgX on Oct 9, 2009 16:43:30 GMT -5
I believe in Aces' theory.
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Post by Fay on Oct 9, 2009 17:02:02 GMT -5
Is because of that stupid Biker testing his gun on him. That was a foreshadowing for what was to happen. You're definitely right, the shot in the head did damage the suit, and that played a part in it. But only a part. The main reason Nishi died was because he was acting like a fucking moron. The first Tanaka Alien wouldn't have even touched or been much of a Challenge for him if Nishi hadn't gone in with that handicap. Of course the alien still would have. He did, after all, get in like what, 5-7 scream-shots on him? Nishi could barely even keep up. With or without receiving the damage from that first shot, Nishi still would have gotten hit most, if not all of those times. In theory it was actually that Biker that killed Nishi. And it was all his fault. Hell no. Partly right, yes. But it was not all his fault. A lot of the fault had to do with Nishi doing completely stupid things. I mean, REALLY fucking stupid. First, he kills the baby bird before shooting at the big one, just so he can reveal his position instead of doing his usual sneak attack. WTF? Idiot. Then, he jumps in the water. What was that going to do for him? All it will do is slow him down. And how come he didn't do lock on shots? Did he not know? How the fuck does he not know?!! Fuck you Nishi. Jeez. Then he yells "help me, help me!" Once his suit is broken, instead of trying to get out of the water, and move to where everyone else is. The guy was a colossal dumbass during that mission. Omg. And one other thing, he should take a sword with him just in case. Even if he doesn't like to use it.... it could come handy in dire situations (unless he does have it on him and it just never showed him take one). So yeah, both Nishi being stupid and the biker shooting him are both to blame. And thus, it is definitely not all the biker's fault, as it is Nishi's as well. Would he had survived? Probably, as Katou would have reached him in time. But if his suit didn't break, he wouldn't have called for help, and it might have played out all the same. It's arguable either way.
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Post by Oka Ace on Oct 10, 2009 2:56:48 GMT -5
Nishi wasn't being stupid he just made some really dumb mistakes/bad luck.
He didn't mean to kill the baby bird. From what I saw it looked like he accidentally stepped on it. From there Tanaka scream blasted him unmasking his cloak. Nishi then became a dumbass and I agree jumping into the water was a stupid move. But he didn't know the alien could fly yet. He basically was the test for everyone else on what the alien could do.
Bad luck plagued Nishi more than stupidity. Being shot before the mission and accidentally blowing his cover.
I'd also like to note that Nishi got hit only twice before he permanently lost his cloak, and even before that he was huffing and puffing. Why would he be if he only got hit once? It was the bikers blast that seriously did him in.
After he lost is cloak he got shot a third time, knocking his gun away, which made him resort to hand to hand combat. And when he threw only one punch poof suit gone.
and this is from getting hit 3 times. He would have had an extra hit had it not been for that basturd. Which means he would have been able to follow up his atack after he punched the alien. Insuring his victory even with the terrain at his dissadvantage.
But he couldn't, once his suit was gone he knew he was fucked.
Bad luck killed Nishi not the Tanaka Alien. The two things he couldnt control. taking that blast and blowing his cover. Nishi would have probably died in the buddha mission though.
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Post by Renan on Oct 10, 2009 11:47:02 GMT -5
If Nishi did live then plot would have killed him in the Buddha mission for sure.
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Post by Fay on Oct 10, 2009 12:48:03 GMT -5
Nishi wasn't being stupid he just made some really dumb mistakes/bad luck. Making really dumb mistakes is the same as being stupid, lol. He didn't mean to kill the baby bird. From what I saw it looked like he accidentally stepped on it. This is pure speculation, though. It could just be that he accidentally stepped on it, which would still be careless of him. And being careless can be defined as being stupid. Therefore, even if it was an accident, it was still him being stupid. Or, it could have just been that he stepped on the bird on purpose, thinking his position wouldn't be revealed. Either way, he was being stupid. From there Tanaka scream blasted him unmasking his cloak. Nishi then became a dumbass and I agree jumping into the water was a stupid move. But he didn't know the alien could fly yet. He basically was the test for everyone else on what the alien could do. Which is exactly why he shouldn't have even got near the alien in the first place. He should have stayed and watched from a safe distance like he always does. But no, he had to be stupid. Bad luck plagued Nishi more than stupidity. Being shot before the mission and accidentally blowing his cover. I disagree, it was more stupidity than bad luck. I already gave three reasons on how he was stupid. You only have two on how it was bad luck. One of which, is him accidentally stepping on the bird, which is being careless, thus being stupid. So one of your two reasons is already part of my three reasons. Regardless, the biker was not the main reason for his death. I'd also like to note that Nishi got hit only twice before he permanently lost his cloak, and even before that he was huffing and puffing. Why would he be if he only got hit once? It was the bikers blast that seriously did him in. I'm not (and never have been) denying that the X-blast had a part to do with it, I'm saying that it isn't the main reason for his death. He could have survived if he didn't act so dumb even if he got that shot from the biker. But if he never got that shot, and he acted just as stupid, he probably still would have died. After he lost is cloak he got shot a third time, knocking his gun away, which made him resort to hand to hand combat. Which, I might add, he is not skilled at. and this is from getting hit 3 times. He would have had an extra hit had it not been for that basturd. Which means he would have been able to follow up his atack after he punched the alien. He's not experienced in hand to hand combat, he would have looked for his gun, or tried to hide, even if his suit was still working. And also, the alien got up rather quickly right after that punch. Therefore, I doubt he would have had enough time to run over to him and punch him again. Insuring his victory even with the terrain at his dissadvantage. One extra punch does not ensure his victory, especially from someone like him. Bad luck killed Nishi not the Tanaka Alien. Bulllcrap. All the factors (bad luck, Nishi being stupid, the alien shooting at him, and Nishi's lack of skill) are all the things that "killed him." But the Tanaka alien was the last thing to do it. The two things he couldnt control. taking that blast and blowing his cover. He could have controlled both of those if he payed more attention and had better reflexes. Nishi would have probably died in the buddha mission though. Not if he acted like he normally does. You know, the hide and wait until you can strike thing. He's normally not that stupid, but in that mission he really really was.
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Post by Renan on Oct 10, 2009 12:52:42 GMT -5
Even if Nishi did act like he did in the Buddha mission he would still die because the plot calls for it. The actual Gantz manga isnt as random as we all make it to be.
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Post by Fay on Oct 10, 2009 12:57:49 GMT -5
I'm talking realistically here though. Regardless of what the plot calls for, if Nishi acts like he normally does the Buddha mission wasn't so dangerous that he couldn't have survived it. Simply a fact. I'm not doubting that Oku wouldn't have killed him.
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Post by Renan on Oct 10, 2009 12:59:55 GMT -5
Well, considering that Katou died in the Buddha mission and was able to kill an 100 pointer mere weeks later with little training I gotta say that the main Buddha was just that strong. And Nishi probbaly would still die. He'd find a way to mess up. He'd probably die fighting the big Buddhas or something.
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Post by Fay on Oct 10, 2009 13:28:51 GMT -5
Well, considering that Katou died in the Buddha mission and was able to kill an 100 pointer mere weeks later with little training I gotta say that the main Buddha was just that strong. lol. Wut? No. The only reason Katou won was because he had help, he knew the weakness of the alien (due to Oka), plus he saw the Osaka team fight it, had an H-gun, and someone jumped in front him to save him. The reason why he won against the main Buddha is because someone jumped in front of him to save him, the regeneration watch was destroyed, and he had a Y-gun. The rest in both cases was due to his own skill. See the incredible difference? The main Buddha is strong, but Nishi could have survived it. There was a huge difference in circumstances. And Nishi probbaly would still die. He'd find a way to mess up. He'd probably die fighting the big Buddhas or something. If Nishi stayed hidden like he normally did, and waited for everyone to die, Kurono would have killed the big buddha(s), etc. So he wouldn't have died on them.
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Post by Oka Ace on Oct 10, 2009 16:56:42 GMT -5
Making really dumb mistakes is the same as being stupid, lol. Yeah.. Ill give you that. even if it was an accident, it was still being him being stupid. Or, it could have just been that he stepped on the bird on purpose, thinking his position wouldn't be revealed. Either way, he was being stupid. He probably didn't see them. The birds being too small. I agree he should have just stayed away. But he must have underestimated Tanaka. The guy doesnt look threatening at all. Excited that he was almost finished the game he was over eager. Thats my only explanation. I disagree, it was more stupidity than bad luck. I already gave three reasons on how he was stupid. You only have two on how it was bad luck. One of which, is him accidentally stepping on the bird, which is being careless, thus being stupid. So one of your two reasons is already part of my three reasons. Regardless, the biker was not the main reason for his death. What were your reasons again? Him jumping into the water was one. and thats because of his reaction to get away. He also could have figured the water was shallow enough. He actually didn't have much time to think of the situation at all. Not locking his shots on, can you do that with a X gun? I thought only Y guns locked on. And the bird which I already said was an easy mistake they're small, you can't tell me you've never tripped over something before. Because it was too small to notice or see. But yeah thats clearly speculation. I'm not (and never have been) denying that the X-blast had a part to do with it, I'm saying that it isn't the main reason for his death. He could have survived if he didn't act so dumb even if he got that shot from the biker. But if he never got that shot, and he acted just as stupid, he probably still would have died. I'd say it is. His life was on the line. Every little thing mattered. Especially the X blast. Ok one his cloaking wouldn't have gone away so fast. Because it only took one attack from Tanaka and poof Nishis main mode of hunting is gone. He might have been able to get away faster or atleast got out of the water. 2. he would have had been able to take another scream. Which, I might add, he is not skilled at. Tell that to these vampires in the sub way. One extra punch does not ensure his victory, especially from someone like him. And Katou can kill one by squzing him to death and Kurono can kill them due to a callapsed building. And it only takes one X gun blast to kill a tanaka too. Maybe Nishi might have been able to hit it because he wouldn't have lost his cloak so soon. Like one hit and hed still be in disguise plenty of time to fire there. Bulllcrap. All the factors (bad luck, Nishi being stupid, the alien shooting at him, and Nishi's lack of skill) are all the things that "killed him." But the Tanaka alien was the last thing to do it. He could have controlled both of those if he payed more attention and had better reflexes. Nish not getting enough time due to his suit being damaged before the battle. Him being tired and worn and losing his cloak AFTER ONLY 1 shot. Nishi jumping in the water and stepping on the bird. You can't change my mind on this. I believe Nishi would have been doing the buhdda if that Biker didn't shoot him. He's normally not that stupid, but in that mission he really really was. I agree and disagree. I agree that it was foolish for him to get in that close when there was plenty of people there and he could have waited. But he was almost free and that could have been in his mindset at the time. I also agree that it was stupid to jump in the water. But that might have been just a split second decision. and he may of thought the water wasn't too deap. But everything else was plagued on his damaged suit. He had an extra man there and it was stolen from him. Boy I love debating gantz with you though. ;D It's what I want GP to be all about.
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Post by Fay on Oct 10, 2009 22:20:52 GMT -5
He probably didn't see them. The birds being too small. I agree he should have just stayed away. But he must have underestimated Tanaka. The guy doesnt look threatening at all. Excited that he was almost finished the game he was over eager. Thats my only explanation. I'm not saying this was a flaw on Oku's part. Nishi was just being careless that's all. It's not like he's perfect, so he was bound to be stupid and mess up at some point. But regardless, being stupid can be defined as being careless. Which he was. What were your reasons again? Him stepping on the bird, him jumping in the water, and him yelling "help me" while standing still. Not locking his shots on, can you do that with a X gun? I thought only Y guns locked on. You can. Kurono did it to Izumi in chapter 133. I'd say it is. His life was on the line. Every little thing mattered. Exactly. Every little thing mattered. Therefore, it would be kinda hard to choose a main reason for his death then, wouldn't it? Which is exactly what you are doing in this theory. Saying the biker is the main reason he died. Yet every little thing matters. That means, all the different factors add up and lead to his death. Not just one main one. Tell that to these vampires in the sub way. But he didn't really use hand to hand combat there. He used the X-gun. And Katou can kill one by squzing him to death and Kurono can kill them due to a callapsed building. And it only takes one X gun blast to kill a tanaka too. Yeah, but all of those feats cause way more damage than a simple punch, and its from Nishi no less. Maybe Nishi might have been able to hit it because he wouldn't have lost his cloak so soon. Like one hit and hed still be in disguise plenty of time to fire there. What do you mean? The reason his cloak got destroyed was because the controller was directly damaged. That doesn't have anything to do with when he was first hit by the blast that the biker did. His cloaking device would have been destroyed at the same time either way. Besides, the cloaking device doesn't matter. The robot can still see him either way. Nish not getting enough time due to his suit being damaged before the battle. Him being tired and worn and losing his cloak AFTER ONLY 1 shot. Nishi jumping in the water and stepping on the bird. You can't change my mind on this. I believe Nishi would have been doing the buhdda if that Biker didn't shoot him. My statement still stands. He could have prevented the shot if he had better reflexes and payed more attention (not being as stupid). Same for the stepping on the bird. So they weren't uncontrollable. Regardless, I'm not trying to change your mind on the fact that Nishi might have survived if he didn't get shot by the biker. My main point is that it goes both ways. You say bad luck was the main reason he died. This is backed up by the fact that he might be able to survive if he hadn't got shot. I say stupidity had a large part to do with his death. This is backed up by the fact that he would have had a good chance of survival if he didn't act stupid. Therefore, it goes both ways, and because of that, neither of us can say that bad luck or stupidity is the main reason for his death. Because if we take out either one, he could have survived. I think stupidity and you think bad luck as the main reason, but this is just an opinion...there's no decisive evidence, as when you take out either you get the same result (Nishi surviving). So yeah, this theory is flawed. I agree and disagree. I agree that it was foolish for him to get in that close when there was plenty of people there and he could have waited. But he was almost free and that could have been in his mindset at the time. It doesn't matter if it is justifiable or not, acting stupid is still acting stupid. I also agree that it was stupid to jump in the water. But that might have been just a split second decision. and he may of thought the water wasn't too deap. It doesn't matter if it is justifiable or not, acting stupid is still acting stupid. Boy I love debating gantz with you though. ;D It's what I want GP to be all about. Yeah, sorry if I've been going about this debate in a kind of stuck up or mean/stiff way. I don't mean to. Glad you enjoy it though. Gantz is awesome.
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