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Post by UlrichAcheronNacht on Sept 20, 2011 16:19:54 GMT -5
Guts'd have all the equipment he has after seeing the blacksmith (whose name I can't remember and am too lazy to look up) he got his hand from.
Kurono would only have his suit, G-Sword, and one X-Gun (this isn't filler, so yes, there is going to be lag).
I think the best place to pair the two is a nice, open area. So, why not have them both fight on the grasslands, with a lack of trees or rivers. We're going to put this down so they have to rely completely on skill and strength.
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Post by βeηrγ on Sept 20, 2011 16:28:02 GMT -5
wait, im a bit behind on berserk. What's this hand form? u know what better not tell me if its a spoiler, jus answer this, does guts have the berserk armor and the big ass sword?
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Post by UlrichAcheronNacht on Sept 20, 2011 19:02:41 GMT -5
Yeah. Imagine him from the very beginning, like, when he was fighting the snake/cobra apostle.
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Post by Haloninjaman808 on Sept 20, 2011 21:24:26 GMT -5
Kurono would win for sure. Sure Guts is beast and all, but Kurono can just lock onto him with the X-Gun and keep shooting him with it. Its bound to destroy his armor and eventually his body.
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Post by UlrichAcheronNacht on Sept 20, 2011 21:51:55 GMT -5
But, you forget Guts is faster than Kurono with the suit on. Kurono needs to be able to actually lock on without getting his suit wiped out after a hit. Or a few. Not to mention, if Guts used those little bombs he had, he could damage the suit before harming Kei.
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Post by Soul2Sell on Sept 21, 2011 0:47:11 GMT -5
if were talking post berserk suit gutz. Gutz can not be denied after seeing him fight thousands of demons at ones and even if he receives an injury his suit forces his body back into place so he can cont fighting
1. Gutz's suit doesn't run out of juice it keeps on ticking the same cant be said for the gantz suit
2. Gutz's is a highly trained warrior having walked out of hundreds of battles of 1v many (alive and maybe a little bruised)
3.kurono has died. Guts survived pretty much death itself with the 5 hand bitchs(saved by my favorite berserk character skullknight) but still lasted insanely long during that fight while everyone else (except casca) was killed almost instantly
4. both characters without there suits gutz can still take on an army, kurono creeps on chicks
5.gutz as kid gutz would probably beat kurono in full suit with an h-gun and a sword(imo)
but if were talking pre bezerk suit still everything above minus the suit
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Post by UlrichAcheronNacht on Sept 21, 2011 9:57:07 GMT -5
Guts as a child would be beaten by Kurono with an H-Gun. No battle, there.
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Post by Fay on Sept 21, 2011 10:57:17 GMT -5
^ lol. wait, im a bit behind on berserk. What's this hand form? lol. There is no hand form. Ulrich said "the blacksmith he got his hand from." Edit: Benry, have you started reading the manga, again? Wasn't it you who said you tried to read the manga after watching the cliffhanger anime, but couldn't or something like that? Edit 2: Nevermind, that was Kamina. 1. Gutz's suit doesn't run out of juice it keeps on ticking the same cant be said for the gantz suit Whoa, now. Guts' suit runs on Guts' life force. And Guts' life force does run out once he loses all his blood. The fact that the Gantz suit doesn't hurt Kurono is an advantage. But this isn't Berserk-Guts anyway. But, you forget Guts is faster than Kurono with the suit on. Kurono needs to be able to actually lock on without getting his suit wiped out after a hit. Or a few. Not to mention, if Guts used those little bombs he had, he could damage the suit before harming Kei. Kurono's not going to just stand there, either. He will be running around like when he was taking on a group of people with Gantz suits and then later Izumi. Kurono's speed/reaction should be around the same level as Guts. Sakata can catch bullets. A weakened Lightning-Oni was able tag Sakata after two-three attempts. Kurono was able to tag Lightning-Oni, even if it was ever-so-slightly. Guts' is barely able to react to Rosine, an apostle that can go fast enough to create sonic booms. And he is able to react to something moving like a whip (around sound speed). So Guts is definitely up-there with Kurono, if not better because his feats of reaction are more confirmed as sound-speed level. Note: Reacting to sound speed does not = moving at that speed. ------------------------------------------------------------- Which Kurono is this? The Kurono that took on Lightning-Oni or the one that took on Buhdda? I'm just going to assume Lightning-Oni. Kurono's physically stronger than Guts. Other normal humans in Gantz suits can do very amazing things. Old Man picked up/swung an elephant-sized alien Dino. He also temporarily held back a Dino 5+ times bigger. Reika can bend metal-like alien substances, etc. Guts' strongest strength feat is picking up and swinging his sword fast. At the very most realistically his sword would probably weigh like 500 pounds (I don't say realistically because of Guts' ability to pick it up and swing it, I say realistically because of it's size). That Dino that Old Man picked up had to at least weigh the same as an elephant. Elephants can weigh up to 9,900 pounds. I'm not saying it weighs that much, I'm saying anywhere from 1,000-10,000 > anywhere from 200-500. Guts has more skill in regards to fighting and swordsmanship quality here. His sword is supernaturally durable, but not as much because of the fact that he hasn't slayed as much demons with it yet (this is pre-berserker armor Guts). His knives aren't going to do much unless maybe Guts uses them to poke out the suit caps? And his arrows are going to be worthless. The mini-bombs and mini-canon will definitely help. Kurono has more range than Guts, via having a gun and a long sword, which is also very durable. This is an amazing advantage in such terrain as an open field. Guts loses this one. The worst long range projectiles that Guts has been up against at full health are arrows (and Rosine, but at least he could block her). This gun will mess him up. Guts has no objects in order to block it other than his sword, and then there goes his sword after a while. Kurono would get dominated in a close-range sword fight, however, his sword is also applicable at long range. And even if Guts closes in and hits him with a mini-canon or his sword, Kurono's durability will tank it and allow him to retaliate very quickly at close range, while Guts durability won't tank anything. Guts can win, of course, but "probability" favors Kurono here. It'll be a tough battle, regardless. |
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Post by UlrichAcheronNacht on Sept 21, 2011 11:16:10 GMT -5
I'd like to watch it. Again, I place my bet on Guts. He can keep moving at the same speed, but Kurono will run out of 'juice' for his suit after a good amount of time. That is, of course, if he doesn't get smashed by the sword. If Guts managed to damage Kurono's suit before even being harmed, he'd be in a good condition. Besides that, he also has a much higher pain tolerance than Kurono does. For instance, Guts cut off his own hand without a problem. He'd been stabbed near/around the heart dozens of times and is still able to fight with cracked ribs. Kurono crying and begging to be killed when he had his arm and leg severed by the Buddha. But, that was an older Kurono. Without the suit, Guts would definitely win. Also, Kurono might decide to start off using the sword. He did in the Italian mission, after all.
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Post by Soul2Sell on Sept 21, 2011 19:50:43 GMT -5
^ lol. wait, im a bit behind on berserk. What's this hand form? lol. There is no hand form. Ulrich said "the blacksmith he got his hand from." Edit: Benry, have you started reading the manga, again? Wasn't it you who said you tried to read the manga after watching the cliffhanger anime, but couldn't or something like that? Whoa, now. Guts' suit runs on Guts' life force. And Guts' life force does run out once he loses all his blood. The fact that the Gantz suit doesn't hurt Kurono is an advantage. But this isn't Berserk-Guts anyway. But, you forget Guts is faster than Kurono with the suit on. Kurono needs to be able to actually lock on without getting his suit wiped out after a hit. Or a few. Not to mention, if Guts used those little bombs he had, he could damage the suit before harming Kei. Kurono's not going to just stand there, either. He will be running around like when he was taking on a group of people with Gantz suits and then later Izumi. Kurono's speed/reaction should be around the same level as Guts. Sakata can catch bullets. A weakened Lightning-Oni was able tag Sakata after two-three attempts. Kurono was able to tag Lightning-Oni, even if it was ever-so-slightly. Guts' is barely able to react to Rosine, an apostle that can go fast enough to create sonic booms. And he is able to react to something moving like a whip (around sound speed). So Guts is definitely up-there with Kurono, if not better because his feats of reaction are more confirmed as sound-speed level. Note: Reacting to sound speed does not = moving at that speed. ------------------------------------------------------------- Which Kurono is this? The Kurono that took on Lightning-Oni or the one that took on Buhdda? I'm just going to assume Lightning-Oni. Kurono's physically stronger than Guts. Other normal humans in Gantz suits can do very amazing things. Old Man picked up/swung an elephant-sized alien Dino. He also temporarily held back a Dino 5+ times bigger. Reika can bend metal-like alien substances, etc. Guts' strongest strength feat is picking up and swinging his sword fast. At the very most realistically his sword would probably weigh like 500 pounds (I don't say realistically because of Guts' ability to pick it up and swing it, I say realistically because of it's size). That Dino that Old Man picked up had to at least weigh the same as an elephant. Elephants can weigh up to 9,900 pounds. I'm not saying it weighs that much, I'm saying anywhere from 1,000-10,000 > anywhere from 200-500. Guts has more skill in regards to fighting and swordsmanship quality here. His sword is supernaturally durable, but not as much because of the fact that he hasn't slayed as much demons with it yet (this is pre-berserker armor Guts). His knives aren't going to do much unless maybe Guts uses them to poke out the suit caps? And his arrows are going to be worthless. The mini-bombs and mini-canon will definitely help. Kurono has more range than Guts, via having a gun and a long sword, which is also very durable. This is an amazing advantage in such terrain as an open field. Guts loses this one. The worst long range projectiles that Guts has been up against at full health are arrows (and Rosine, but at least he could block her). This gun will mess him up. Guts has no objects in order to block it other than his sword, and then there goes his sword after a while. Kurono would get dominated in a close-range sword fight, however, his sword is also applicable at long range. And even if Guts closes in and hits him with a mini-canon or his sword, Kurono's durability will tank it and allow him to retaliate very quickly at close range, while Guts durability won't tank anything. Guts can win, of course, but "probability" favors Kurono here. It'll be a tough battle, regardless. I dont really like this vs topic cause gutz has a huge handicap although its really not enough of a handicap(for me) 2 say that kurono would win and me saying kid guts could beat kurono id say i was joking alittle bit but in the long run i feel like gutz's speeds have to be beyond the level of a gantz suit hes be training since he was a little kid he was killing adults as a kid i mean shit man now that i think about kurono did some coolshit as a kid 2 but nothing like that lol (id say kaze could fight pre suit gutz and beat him but not kurono) oh almost forgot fay yeah his death would mean the end of the suit but i mean realistically death shouldnt be consider the suit running out cause i mean the suit didnt run out gutz did |
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Post by Oka Ace on Sept 22, 2011 15:58:24 GMT -5
Ok you guys have come to the conclusion that guts without berserker armor loses while with Berserker armor he wins?
If thats the case I agree. I suppose gutz has more than enough power injuring god like apostles,(like the emperor). To be honest Guts has all the power to hurt a Gantz suit but not enough defence to take a X blast more than a few times. And I'd guess a Gantz sword would be sharper. Guts sword is like a special blood sword isn't it? I heard somewhere that Guts sword was special.
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Post by UlrichAcheronNacht on Sept 22, 2011 16:30:01 GMT -5
Just got to the part where he got Berserker armor. Currently, he's fleeing the city with the rest of his crew. Anyway, I think Guts would be able to win either way. And yeah, "Dragon" is special because of all the demons it killed.
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Post by Fay on Sept 22, 2011 18:25:08 GMT -5
but Kurono will run out of 'juice' for his suit after a good amount of time. Evidence? Katou's ran out via him using it, BUT he also got hit by screaming attacks before that. Lots of them. And Nishi's suit ran out via him using it. But he also got hit by a lot of attacks before that as well. There's no way to know if the suit would have eventually ran out on it's own or if it needs to receive damage first before it can. After all, Kurono's suit hasn't ran out once since Katastrophe has started. And he's been exerting it like crazy. If Guts managed to damage Kurono's suit before even being harmed, he'd be in a good condition. Doubt that's going to happen seeing as how Kurono's suit can take hits while Guts only needs one hit before he gets "damaged." Kurono's not lacking in speed or strength here. He lacks skill. But he makes up for that with range. Besides that, he also has a much higher pain tolerance than Kurono does. For instance, Guts cut off his own hand without a problem. He'd been stabbed near/around the heart dozens of times and is still able to fight with cracked ribs. Kurono crying and begging to be killed when he had his arm and leg severed by the Buddha. But, that was an older Kurono. Yeah, new Kurono sat there and kept shooting the H-gun while he had nearly half of his body ripped apart. If Guts loses his arm pain tolerance wouldn't be the problem. Swinging his sword fast enough to catch Kurono would be. Without the suit, Guts would definitely win. You mean without Kurono's Gantz suit? Agreed. Provided Guts isn't really injured. Like, big holes in his body injured. Also, Kurono might decide to start off using the sword. He did in the Italian mission, after all. Guts might decide to use arrows. He did against many other opponents before, after all.  2 say that kurono would win and me saying kid guts could beat kurono id say i was joking alittle bit but in the long run i feel like gutz's speeds have to be beyond the level of a gantz suit hes be training since he was a little kid he was killing adults as a kid i mean shit man now that i think about kurono did some coolshit as a kid 2 but nothing like that lol (id say kaze could fight pre suit gutz and beat him but not kurono) Guts has a better chance against Kaze. Kaze is weaker than Kurono is because Kaze doesn't use any weapons. Guts is more skilled with his sword than Kaze is in fist-fighting. Guts repeatedly fights people with greater strength than his own, so Kaze's super strength isn't that bad of a factor. Kaze vs. Guts is actually a more even fight than with Kurono. Kaze vs. Guts is like Apostle Zodd vs. Guts. Pretty even all around. oh almost forgot fay yeah his death would mean the end of the suit but i mean realistically death shouldnt be consider the suit running out cause i mean the suit didnt run out gutz did Agreed. But the point here is that it's still a +1 one for the Gantz suit vs. Berserker suit. As the fight carries on the suit "bites" into Guts and he loses blood. Eventually Guts dies. Wearing the suit is dangerous regardless of whether or not he even gets injured by the enemy because the suit constantly drains Guts' "health." Unlike the Gantz suit which increases the persons' strength without decreasing the health. Ok you guys have come to the conclusion that guts without berserker armor loses while with Berserker armor he wins? If thats the case I agree. I suppose gutz has more than enough power injuring god like apostles,(like the emperor). To be honest Guts has all the power to hurt a Gantz suit but not enough defence to take a X blast more than a few times. And I'd guess a Gantz sword would be sharper. Guts sword is like a special blood sword isn't it? I heard somewhere that Guts sword was special. It's supernaturally durable and able to pierce intangible magical beings. But the ability to pierce intangible magical beings doesn't really have relevance when dealing with physical, durable technology like Gantz suits. So the only factor is it's supernatural durability. And yeah, I think that Guts would definitely win with the Berserker armor. |
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Post by UlrichAcheronNacht on Sept 22, 2011 22:32:55 GMT -5
Fucking Fayrra over-analyzed me. I admit defeat. Q~Q
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Post by Fay on Sept 22, 2011 22:54:30 GMT -5
lol. It's cool if you think Guts would win. Like I said, it's a close match regardless. And in the end that's all it is. Some theoretical match. I just didn't want you to think that way based on false-premises.
Kurono starting out getting up close with a sword. Guts breaking Kurono's suit without injury to himself. Kurono not having pain tolerance vs. Guts having it, etc. These are all pretty unfair or flawed/irrelevent premises, that's all.
Contrary to popular belief I don't exactly like it when a debate is full of quotes and over-analyzing long responses either. Simplicity is genius' best friend, I do so try to make things simple and effective. I really do.
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