odin
New Member
Posts: 17
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Kurono?
Apr 30, 2010 2:28:02 GMT -5
Post by odin on Apr 30, 2010 2:28:02 GMT -5
hey guys.. on chapter 53.. how come korono doesnt remember killin the big bird boss... any thoughts..
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Kurono?
Apr 30, 2010 15:01:02 GMT -5
Post by Fay on Apr 30, 2010 15:01:02 GMT -5
Well, I personally think that it's because a copy of them is made every second and stored in the Gantz database. So, when Gantz transferred Kurono back, he took in the Kurono that was laying on the roof, and put out the copy that was still running from the Bird alien. For this to work, it would mean that each time a Gantz participant is transferred, they have to go through the database first. So, in actuality, they are being copied over and over again.
As for why, I think it was simply a mistake. Gantz makes mistakes, after all. So when Gantz transferred Kurono he accidently put out an older copy, rather than the newest one.
What chapter are you on? Are you caught up with all the current chapters?
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Kurono?
Apr 30, 2010 16:47:41 GMT -5
Post by Renan on Apr 30, 2010 16:47:41 GMT -5
Don't try and justify a plot hole with a theory. People make mistakes, mangakas are people, therefore they make mistakes. It's not a big deal, don't think too much about it.
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Kurono?
Apr 30, 2010 17:52:28 GMT -5
Post by Fay on Apr 30, 2010 17:52:28 GMT -5
You're severely underestimating Oku's intelligence that way.
You have to question the logic in throwing it out as simply a plot hole or inconsistency.
For this to be true, Oku would have had to completely forget that Kurono killed the bird alien. Not to mention that this "loss of memory" has happened more than once. An older version of said "loss of memory" character getting transferred into the room, I mean. It happened with Kurono; it happened with Kato when he got revived. So that also means that Oku would have had to make the same mistake twice. Not to mention Oku's already had Gantz make a mistake (Kishimoto clone). Then he blatantly shows us Kurono running in saying "the bird, the bird!", as if it was a transfer from an older copy of him. In fact, it's pretty obvious that Gantz made a mistake, not Oku. Because, once again, you'd have to be retarded to make a mistake as huge as that (plot inconsistency-wise). Twice.
Your anti-Gantz faggotry is radiating through my computer screen.
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Kurono?
Apr 30, 2010 18:32:58 GMT -5
Post by Renan on Apr 30, 2010 18:32:58 GMT -5
I'm not anti-Gantz, but I also don't have a hard-on for Oku. You look at him as some God. Gantz doesn't have an intelligent plot, at least not as intelligent as you think it is. Sure, it's pretty clever, but Oku's not some kind of fucking genius. In fact I think you're overestimating Oku's intelligene WAY too much. He made a good manga with amazing character development, great art and an ok plot. That's that.
And making plot incosistencies isn't that hard to do, especially when your series is monthly (If I recall Gantz was monthly until sometime during the Buddha arc, of course I could be wrong.)
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Kurono?
Apr 30, 2010 19:40:05 GMT -5
Post by Fay on Apr 30, 2010 19:40:05 GMT -5
at least not as intelligent as you think it is. Sure, it's pretty clever, but Oku's not some kind of fucking genius. In fact I think you're overestimating Oku's intelligence WAY too much. He made a good manga with amazing character development, great art and an ok plot. That's that. lol. I don't think Gantz is an amazingly intelligent manga. I do think, however, that it's not a stupid manga. You're saying that it was a plot hole. In order for it to be a plot hole it has to contradict the plot, or go against something that was said. All that happened was that a Kurono with the mind set of before he killed the boss alien got transferred in the room after the mission was over. The only way this could be a plot inconsistency is if Oku forgot that Kurono killed the alien. After all, it was never stated exactly how the transfer system works. Therefore, it wouldn't contradict the plot at all if an older copy of Kurono was transferred instead of the newest one. Also, there's been theories about other universe Kurono's when regarding this. That's illogical and whacked out, not my theory. And making plot inconsistencies isn't that hard to do, especially when your series is monthly (If I recall Gantz was monthly until sometime during the Buddha arc, of course I could be wrong.) Still, something like forgetting who killed a boss alien is just plain out retarded. He obviously did that whole "a copy of Kurono gets transferred from before he killed the boss thing" on purpose. I mean, Kato even addressed it, wondering why Kurono didn't remember. And it doesn't necessarily contradict the plot. It's most likely just a mistake Gantz made. Oku probably did this to give more insight into Gantz and its memory/transfer system. Heck, maybe there's something about it on the Gantz manual. Have you forgotten who I am, Naner? I am Fayrra! Lord of the unbiased! The tyrant of debate around these parts! I have never banned anyone, nor edited their posts unless they told me to. I believe in fair argumentation. And if I'm biased I'll admit it. And so it shall be known; I have no problem seeing an error in my ways! For I am one with Science; a harbinger of wisdom: and error! Join me in my basking, Renan! For this opportune moment will only last a few million nano-seconds. My internet persona is widely varied, after all. I created the thread titled "Gantz Criticism." Admitting that it wasn't perfect. I have my own qualms about the manga as well. And seriously, some of the characters act stupid as hell. I do not think Oku is perfect or some kind of God of Manga. Still, compared to most other mangakas, he's done a pretty good job at keeping a solid manga without real plot holes. After that, it's really just personal preference. Now, Renan the Sage! You will show me exactly how it is a plot hole, or I shall show you no further mercy! Please.
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Kurono?
Apr 30, 2010 20:08:11 GMT -5
Post by empressofangels on Apr 30, 2010 20:08:11 GMT -5
lol..i love you two. very much so. <3 =D
i feel so happy today.
im rereading gantz right now!!!!!
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Kurono?
Apr 30, 2010 21:06:48 GMT -5
Post by Renan on Apr 30, 2010 21:06:48 GMT -5
Actually, you got me. I didn't even remember Kato mentioning Kurono not remembering it, so I guess it wasn't a plot hole, but then again it is rather silly how Oku would bring something like this up only once and never again until about 10 years later with Kurono II. And I doubt he planned that out, but he probably read back in his work or someone pointed it out and he rolled with it, which actually worked somewhat well and I can see how you can think Oku might be a genius because of that, but I'm just speculating and then again so are you.
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Kurono?
Apr 30, 2010 22:10:21 GMT -5
Post by Fay on Apr 30, 2010 22:10:21 GMT -5
We have come to an accord, Sage. And I wonder if Oku is actually a genius or if he simply smokes crack and thinks up the next arc for Gantz. =/ And Aisat, I've been wanting to reread Gantz for a while now. Been holding out for quite a bit now, like non-orgasmic ejaculation, however, I've been looking at little parts and scenes from Gantz every once in a while, but never read the whole thing. I want to, though. Edit: Also, Renan, when you think about it, every time someone has a limb ripped off (or something of that nature) during a mission but survives, and is transferred back to the room, it's implied that it is an older copy of them. Onion: When Kato was transferred back into the room, he was still in the headlock position and didn't remember Kurono taking down the Oni boss. Tanaka: For this one Kurono didn't loose any limbs, so I think Gantz may have just made a mistake when transferring him back. Buddha: When Kurono got transferred back into the room, he was yelling/crying and he had the two guns (one X-rifle and one X-gun) in his hand. He was in the same position that he was in when he went berserk and tried to kill the Buddha boss: For pretty much every mission after that it doesn't really specifically show any of their reactions. For example, during the Oni mission Kaze and Sakata got really screwed up, but when they were back in the room it didn't show them go "oh, what happened" as if it were an older copy. But it didn't show them say anything that contradicts the theory either. Most likely Oku just didn't care to show their reactions, because by now he figured we would know that it was an older copy. Same way Oku doesn't really show the intro in the apartment of every mission as in-depth anymore. So this all supports the theory that an older version of them is copied. Because if it was the newest version they would probably still have their memory and be healed. This leads to another question, though. Can Gantz heal fatal wounds such as having your limbs ripped off? Can Gantz completely regenerate wounds? Or does he need an older copy of that person before the wound was incurred to do that? Gantz has been shown to heal cancer and scars before without the copy system theory. But it seems that Gantz has to copy the user from before the wound in order to heal them when its more disastrous wounds. Because if this theory is right then Gantz has never directly healed a wound like that. He simply took a copy of an older version from the database and transferred it.
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Kurono?
May 9, 2010 21:32:29 GMT -5
Post by Oka Ace on May 9, 2010 21:32:29 GMT -5
Wow ok I was going to simply answer odins question with the shorter version of fayrras last post. Because I own Gantz Volumes 1-10 which Ive reread 10 times each.
Oku purposely made gantz make mistakes. He trasferred Kurono in the Tanakaa mission and the buhdda mission in earlier forms not right when the mission was done like it was supposed to. It's obvious.
After Buhda it stopped. Maybe Oku got lazy with his attention to detail.
And like Fayrra said, Gantz takes the older forms of people before they get hurt. But later on he's able to have them keep thier memories. Like when Kurono got fucked up in Italy.
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